Car Questions - Page 3

superz28 · #31 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 01:50 PM

nitrous is only fun in need for speed... especially when im racing a gt500 against a carrera gt at d&b's

sccavette · #32 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloGT

I've never ridden with nitrous at all. You're kind of convincing me that it might be hilarious to have a 100 or 150 shot around...

All i am saying is do not pass judgement until you have a full understanding of what it is capable of doing. If you ever get a chance to ride in a car on spray you will be suprised.

I will argue that you can make more boost that 7psi on 93 octane with an S/C. I know lots of guys that are running 17-23psi on 93 octane. Plus, I'm unaware of any local pumps here with anything higher than 93. Nitrous is making your internal combustion go like mad.. isn't that different than any sort of air induction?

I agree it is possible to make higher boost numbers on a motor built to do just that (lower compression ratio) EXAMPLE: a 7:1 compression motor will hold more boost with a lower octane fuel to where a 8:1 compression motor will hold less boost with the same octane fuel. Basically you are building a motor capable of GOOD HP numbers then detuning it to run on pump gas. Why not just spend a little money on good gas and get the best performance out of the engine that you have buit? I have done this with GN;s, build 2 chips, one for pump gas safe boost and timing and one for race fuel with more boost and timing (race chip) same motor 50-75 HP difference by changing a few lines in the program and fuel. If you are talking a power addition to a NA motor you will be hard pressed to get those boost numbers unless it is a small cubic inch motor with a low compression ratio.

NOS is no more than a pure form of oxygen, the same as a turbo and SC you are just adding oxygen by chemical and not pressure. A engine is no more than a AIR PUMP! The more air/ fuel you can pump through at any given RPM the more HP it will make. NOS takes the same amount of space (combustion area) and increases the amount of concentrated oxygen in that area allowing you to burn more fuel, more oxygen + more fuel in the same area = more HP. In a turbo or SC motor you are forcing (pressurizing) more air and fuel in the same given area = more HP. I am not saying that NOS is a "better" option than a Turbo or a SC but you will make more HP for $ spent with the spray. This is why I am amazed that not every kid that wants a fast car does not spend the $600 and buy a good NOS kit. Most will spend thousands on all kind of minor bolt ons that all together deliver 1/2 the HP gain as the spray. A good kit installed and used correct will not hurt the motor and suprise a LOT of your friends that have spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars when you go driving past them. THAT is the reason it has got the "cheating" rap, You spent 600 and outran my car I have spent 3K in mods, you have to be cheating because you did not spend as much time and money as me and are faster.

apolloGT · #33 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 03:21 PM

"Next, be sure to have the proper octane gasoline. The octane rating determines the gasoline's resistance to detonation or spark knock. Gasoline with a high octane rating burns (or evaporates) slower than a low-octane gas and this is absolutely necessary in the oxygen-rich environment of a nitrous engine. Our tip: if you're using a 50-125 horsepower kit, and the engine timing is set properly, you can get away with 92-94 octane gas. Beyond that we suggest using race gas."

That was from a nitrous manufactuer for Mustangs.. kinda interesting.

I'm so-so on it now I guess, but to prove my earlier point, ever noticed when people give dyno numbers, they have 2 figures.. one with nitrous, the other without? That's my whole temporary point. You can't disengage a supercharger without physically removing it.

I also looked at nitrous switches.. it is badass/hilarious that they are fighter jet style toggle switches.., with a MASTER ARM switch.. hehehe

sccavette · #34 (**permalink**) 02-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloGT

"Next, be sure to have the proper octane gasoline. The octane rating determines the gasoline's resistance to detonation or spark knock. Gasoline with a high octane rating burns (or evaporates) slower than a low-octane gas and this is absolutely necessary in the oxygen-rich environment of a nitrous engine. Our tip: if you're using a 50-125 horsepower kit, and the engine timing is set properly, you can get away with 92-94 octane gas. Beyond that we suggest using race gas."

This is very good advise! Keep in mind they are always going to advise you to do whatever is the safest. They are trying to keep you from hurting anything by NOT taking all precautions. You can get away with 150 shot on pump gas AS LONG AS YOU MONITOR the engine for knock or lean conditions.
That was from a nitrous manufactuer for Mustangs.. kinda interesting.

I'm so-so on it now I guess, but to prove my earlier point, ever noticed when people give dyno numbers, they have 2 figures.. one with nitrous, the other without? That's my whole temporary point. You can't disengage a supercharger without physically removing it.

I also looked at nitrous switches.. it is badass/hilarious that they are fighter jet style toggle switches.., with a MASTER ARM switch.. hehehe

LOL yea those are always fun to see. Most people who are serious about a NOS system for HP reasons and street racing will hide as much as possible and not use any of these "look at me" switches. When I had spray on my Z28 the cig lighter was the arming switch and then it was on a wide open throttle switch. Push lighter in and mash gas and away you went. If I loaned the car out I took the lighter out of the car and there was no chance of them using the spray!

Ask GOAT66 about the fogger kit he had on his GTO tri-power motor that was plumbed UNDER the intake and pretty much completly hidden under the intake. One of the best installes I have seen and at glance you would not even know it was there.

Than ask him what happen to the crankshaft in that motor!!!!

Goat1966 · #35 (**permalink**) 02-13-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sccavette

LOL yea those are always fun to see. Most people who are serious about a NOS system for HP reasons and street racing will hide as much as possible and not use any of these "look at me" switches. When I had spray on my Z28 the cig lighter was the arming switch and then it was on a wide open throttle switch. Push lighter in and mash gas and away you went. If I loaned the car out I took the lighter out of the car and there was no chance of them using the spray!

Ask GOAT66 about the fogger kit he had on his GTO tri-power motor that was plumbed UNDER the intake and pretty much completly hidden under the intake. One of the best installes I have seen and at glance you would not even know it was there.

Than ask him what happen to the crankshaft in that motor!!!!

I had a lot of fun playing with that NOS kit on that Tri-Power. One thing I don't remember is ever having to turn it on when I was racing you!! Oh, good thing you never had a problem with breaking parts ON THE STARTING LINE when drag racing so I don't have to bring up those situations!

matt69cutlass · #36 (**permalink**) 02-13-2009, 03:12 PM

Gentleman, I have to get involved in this disscusion! I have a nitrous system on my own car, and have either installed or helped install countless others. I can tell you from personal experience that nitous IS HANDS DOWN THE BEST HP PER DOLLAR! Given the choice of camshaft, cylinder heads or othe mods or nitrous I would choose spray every time. Why spend time and money making little mods when you can go straight to the big horsepower?

As for the arguement of is nitrous cheating: Are only certin people allowed to own nitrous systems? Is there some regulations or law that say I can have nitrous but you cant? All is fair in love and war and STEET RACING. As Phil commented previously, street racing is not like what is shown on Pinks. If we line up and race and you missed the nitrous system under the hood, too bad. Why should I change the conditions of the race to better favor you?

I pefer to keep my nitrous system out of plain view on my personal car. The soleniods are hidden between the fender and wheelhouse, the arming switch is out of sight and I'm using the cruise control "set speed" button for the purge. Is it hidden? No, just not obvious. If you know what to look for, its there for all to see.

I also have never scattered a engine from nitrous. Any V-8 engine in sound mechanical condition can saftely handle 125hp nitrous kit. The key is keeping detonation under control. Would you crank up the boost on your forced induction engines and try to run them on low octane fuel? No way! Why is nitrous any different?

My intention is not to belittle or insult anyone's veiws or opinions. Everyone has there own opionios on how best to modify a car. In my opinion, nitrous is the best hp per dollars you can get.

Im looking forward to the next round of discussion!

apolloGT · #37 (**permalink**) 02-13-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt69cutlass

Gentleman, I have to get involved in this disscusion! I have a nitrous system on my own car, and have either installed or helped install countless others. I can tell you from personal experience that nitous IS HANDS DOWN THE BEST HP PER DOLLAR! Given the choice of camshaft, cylinder heads or othe mods or nitrous I would choose spray every time. Why spend time and money making little mods when you can go straight to the big horsepower?

As for the arguement of is nitrous cheating: Are only certin people allowed to own nitrous systems? Is there some regulations or law that say I can have nitrous but you cant? All is fair in love and war and STEET RACING. As Phil commented previously, street racing is not like what is shown on Pinks. If we line up and race and you missed the nitrous system under the hood, too bad. Why should I change the conditions of the race to better favor you?

I pefer to keep my nitrous system out of plain view on my personal car. The soleniods are hidden between the fender and wheelhouse, the arming switch is out of sight and I'm using the cruise control "set speed" button for the purge. Is it hidden? No, just not obvious. If you know what to look for, its there for all to see.

I also have never scattered a engine from nitrous. Any V-8 engine in sound mechanical condition can saftely handle 125hp nitrous kit. The key is keeping detonation under control. Would you crank up the boost on your forced induction engines and try to run them on low octane fuel? No way! Why is nitrous any different?

My intention is not to belittle or insult anyone's veiws or opinions. Everyone has there own opionios on how best to modify a car. In my opinion, nitrous is the best hp per dollars you can get.

Im looking forward to the next round of discussion!

You guys have me seriously thinking about it now. The only issue with my car is that the pistons/rods are only good for 450rwhp, and most guys shoot for 400rwhp... what I'm getting at is, with a supercharger, I could be running a solid 400rwhp all the time (which for my age and being a street-bred mustang, is pretty decent). With a nitrous setup, I would probably be running somewhere around the 270-280rwhp most of the time.. the when I let the spray go, all hell would break loose, but still. As of now, my finances do not allow for any sort of forged pistons/rods, and a supercharger would probably be slated for late summer/fall.. or even spring 2010. Input?

Johnnyboy · #38 (**permalink**) 02-13-2009, 11:33 PM

They have different Nitrous packages. You could just get a +100-150HP shot. With a cool fighter jet style toggle switch with a flipup safty cover.

apolloGT · #39 (**permalink**) 02-14-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnnyboy

They have different Nitrous packages. You could just get a +100-150HP shot. With a cool fighter jet style toggle switch with a flipup safty cover.

yeah I would only get like a 125 shot anyways, but if I supercharge my car and don't have forged pistons/rods, I can't have nitrous

sccavette · #40 (**permalink**) 02-14-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloGT

yeah I would only get like a 125 shot anyways, but if I supercharge my car and don't have forged pistons/rods, I can't have nitrous

Actually you can! NOS acts like a intercooler on a boosted car. You can use less NOS and get more HP, for example a 50HP shot on a boosted car would act like a 75HP shot because of the cooling of the inlet air. The biggest problem you will run into is to make sure you keep the detonation down. You can get away with cast pistons on a 125HP (no SC) shot.

matt69cutlass · #41 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 12:40 PM

Cast pistons a safe with nitrous only if ( andONLY IF!) detonaton is kept under control. However, you dont have the safty margin that forged piston provide. Cast pistons shatter when subjected to the hammering of detonation (ask how I know!

). Forged connecting rods are a luxery that you probably dont need. Rods usually dont fail from horsepower loads, they usually fail from rpm. Nothing puts a big spike in the torque curve like nitrous! Put nitrous on it, keep the revs in reason and go fast. If that is to hard to do, put a Olds engine in it!

kendallcschm · #42 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 12:50 PM

i have to say that if you have a really nice car with an awesome engine then you won't need spray because for the most part ppl with spray don't use it in racing because when you set rules ppl without spray say hey don't use it.. so generally i think its pointless to have spray.. just mod your engine well

apolloGT · #43 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendallcschm

i have to say that if you have a really nice car with an awesome engine then you won't need spray because for the most part ppl with spray don't use it in racing because when you set rules ppl without spray say hey don't use it.. so generally i think its pointless to have spray.. just mod your engine well

I would agree with you, but my total planned mods with a supercharger exceed $8000... total planned mods with nitrous instead total about $2500-$3000. Even so, I'll still probably go with the supercharger

sccavette · #44 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt69cutlass

Cast pistons a safe with nitrous only if ( andONLY IF!) detonaton is kept under control. However, you dont have the safty margin that forged piston provide. Cast pistons shatter when subjected to the hammering of detonation (ask how I know!

). Forged connecting rods are a luxery that you probably dont need. Rods usually dont fail from horsepower loads, they usually fail from rpm. Nothing puts a big spike in the torque curve like nitrous! Put nitrous on it, keep the revs in reason and go fast. If that is to hard to do, put a Olds engine in it!:clap:

just had to put that in there didn't you?

sccavette · #45 (**permalink**) 02-15-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kendallcschm

i have to say that if you have a really nice car with an awesome engine then you won't need spray because for the most part ppl with spray don't use it in racing because when you set rules ppl without spray say hey don't use it.. so generally i think its pointless to have spray.. just mod your engine well